Primary Wave founder and CEO Larry Mestel and Kobalt CEO Laurent Hubert have publicly discussed Primary Wave’s acquisition of Kobalt for the first time, in a music business podcast interview that covered how the talks began and why consolidation is happening now.
Deal background and open questions#
In February, reports emerged that Primary Wave was nearing a historic deal to acquire Kobalt, which is arguably the world’s largest independent frontline publisher. The combined company was estimated to hold $7 billion in assets. The deal closed in July, but neither company’s executives had spoken to the press, and key details remained unclear.
At the time, the only disclosed point was that Kobalt would operate independently of Primary Wave, which is one of the largest owners of iconic music catalogs in the industry. Its roster spans artists including Whitney Houston, Stevie Nicks, Bob Marley and Prince.
Questions that remained open included:
- Whether Primary Wave would move its catalogs to Kobalt
- Whether the deal included assets from Kobalt’s $700 million catalog fund with Morgan Stanley
- How Kobalt’s other verticals fit into the picture
Those verticals include AMRA, a global digital rights collection service that aims to speed up royalty collection and reduce reliance on middlemen outside the U.S., and Kosign, Kobalt’s digital-first publishing service for middle-class songwriters who are not ready to sign a traditional deal.
The acquisition also came amid substantial change in the industry. Universal Music Group’s Virgin division was finalizing its acquisition of Downtown Music Holdings, and BMG was moving toward its purchase of Concord.
Origins of the talks#
Hubert said the discussions began in summer 2025. He said the first conversation was not with him directly but with another party at a dinner.
Mestel said the dinner was organized by Goldman Sachs. He recalled that Jenny Kim, head of music at Goldman Sachs, asked him, “Have you considered Kobalt as an acquisition and as a partner?” He replied that Primary Wave was administration-agnostic but had known Hubert for a long time, adding, “Culturally, I think we’re very similar companies.” Kim responded, “Well, you’re going to consider it because I’m bringing you the deal.”
Mestel said the fit made sense because “you could never have on your team too many great managers,” and he described Hubert’s team as “fantastic managers.” He said Primary Wave saw value beyond Kobalt’s administration platform, including in AMRA and Kosign.
Why Primary Wave kept administration separate#
Mestel said Primary Wave has focused on marketing, branding and content creation, including Broadway productions, films, immersive experiences, cosmetic lines and gaming. He said building an administration platform requires significant capital and effort, and that the company has long viewed administration as a commodity.
He said many companies perform administration, but he could not name any that did marketing and value creation as well as Primary Wave, which he said competitors would find very hard to replicate. Primary Wave has “always stayed away from the administration side of the business because we could always rent it at relatively insignificant cost.”
How the two companies will work together#
Hubert said Mestel had described Kobalt as a destination in the market, and that he initially understood the interest but did not fully grasp the vision until Mestel explained it. He said Primary Wave focuses on creating engagement with the properties it acquires, while Kobalt focuses on unlocking greater value from a collection perspective.
Hubert said the companies will cross some functionality and compound those benefits without a merger or integration. He said this also meant Kobalt’s management would not need to go through an education process about the business, adding, “We don’t have to be disrupted day one.”
